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USMC Winchester sniper clone

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  • USMC Winchester sniper clone

    I have been wanting to build one of these for a long time now, pmclaine and Raven6 recent posts of their USMC Model 70's were the final motivation for me!
    I have a question on parts. My build is going to have a new production Douglas barrel with the Winchester target barrel profile. Should the front sight block be the two screw type used on the Douglas barrels? OR should I go with the dovetailed sight block?
    I'm not sure if any of the Winchester profiled barrels had the two screw block???

    Your help is greatly appreciated!
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    I have secured a nice Pre-War Model 70, a Unertl 10X scope with USMC mounts, the scope blocks and a barrel. The stock has the first coat of BLO on it now...
    DW
    Last edited by deltawiskey; 06-10-2018, 03:13 PM. Reason: Updated the picture, got the first coat of BLO on the stock

  • #2
    I dont know but he might

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    According to Cpl Norton this appears to be a dovetail front sight base.

    If you ask Justin he may still have one that came from being used to seat my Winchester 105A globe. I traded a dovetail base for a two screw front globe base.

    because it appears on Douglas barrels, the replacements that were beefier, they prepped for two screw bases and issued these rifles to Leprachauns.

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    and I believe this is from Senich indicating besides the dovetail two screw bases were used.

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    CplNorton posted a bunch of info in my Snipershide post. Alot of those posts include pictures of rifles with a FSB a little zooming in may help you decide.

    Edit add - Anything I provide for pictures or information about this came from smarter guys than me - CplNorton or USMCSGT0331.

    Any errors in what I say though are mine.
    Last edited by pmclaine; 06-09-2018, 04:22 PM.
    "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

    Comment


    • pmclaine
      pmclaine commented
      Editing a comment
      No it would depend on what your time frame/imagined life of the rifle would be.

      Im thinking the early target barrels had the dovetail bases. Note that pic I sent indicates a really early one (picture cut off) with perhaps only 40 examples ever seen so very rare. There were three types of FSB Dovetail and two screw being the last of the three.

      When rifles were rebarreled and replacement barrels were ordered two screw bases came on line.

      I think the history shows these prewar M70s spent a lot more time as rifle team guns (or in storage) than they did as sniper rifles.

      CplNorton has concerns with the thought the whole USMC M70 story is limited to one pre-war purchase of some 300 plus or minus rifles.

      I think you would be correct using a two screw base with the impression being it was rebarreled with a later target barrel replacement.

      If you went with a dovetail than your fantasy is that the USMC had an ooolllllddd stock barrel on hand and twisted it on.

      Finding a dovetail base wont be hard - Justin has one - I traded it to him. I think they are kind of rare or you could buy a Winchester 75 or period rifle and scavenge one. Its not mine anymore its Justins. I dont know what the value would be.

      Id go two screw and challenge someone to prove it incorrect.
      Last edited by pmclaine; 06-09-2018, 04:43 PM.

    • SemperFi
      SemperFi commented
      Editing a comment
      "Im thinking the early target barrels had the dovetail bases. Note that pic I sent indicates a really early one (picture cut off) with perhaps only 40 examples ever seen so very rare. There were three types of FSB Dovetail and two screw being the last of the three."

      Weren't the integral ramps silver soldered to the barrel?

    • pmclaine
      pmclaine commented
      Editing a comment
      I've never seen an example because the picture posted cut it off.

  • #3
    "Ok, so the two screw is for the heavier Douglas profile and the dovetail is for the Winchester barrel...great, I need a different front sight block : )
    DW"

    I think the pre-195x barrels used the dovetail in the barrel, and post 195x barrels used the two screws...but I don't recall with which year, but 1951 or 1952 or 1953 seems to jog my memory.

    I suggest you get your front and rear scope blocks from Steve Earle, good guy, good parts, and good prices. That's where I got mine 2 years ago:

    Front sight block (Steve Earle part)


    Scope mounting blocks (again, Steve Earle parts):


    FWIW, I took my M70 to Quantico for the Remember the Brave match over Memorial Day weekend, May 2018. Major Jim Land (USMC retired) was there, and after talking to him a bit I decided a picture with him and my Vietnam era M70 USMC replica would be a nice memento, as he is responsible for these being sent to Vietnam in the 1965-1966 period. He was kind enough to agree, and here's the pic from Range 3 at Quantico.



    ....Anyhow, keep us posted re your Model 70 project. These are neat old rifles.
    Last edited by Random Guy; 06-09-2018, 07:19 PM.

    Comment


    • deltawiskey
      deltawiskey commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the info! I would Love to have a conversation with Mr Land, awesome photo!!

    • SemperFi
      SemperFi commented
      Editing a comment
      You are NOT letting go of that rifle, are you? Not even for Jim Land! LOL!

  • #4
    I'm not going to get the rifle into the gunsmith until this fall sometime. I updated the picture to show the first coat of BLO on the stock...probably wont have anything new to post for a while.
    Thank you all for your replies!!
    DW

    Comment


    • pmclaine
      pmclaine commented
      Editing a comment
      Thats a beautiful piece of wood, keeping hitting it with the oil until you send it away. Give it some summer sunshine to help oxidize and mellow the finish.

      Your rear scope blocks are correct looking in that the tops are dished.

      From the pictures/conversations with cplnorton it appears the USMC used Winchester blocks that have that dished top under the scope.

      Real Winchester blocks have "dimples" opposite the Unertl mount cuts that would have been used with Winchester A5 scope mounts, Im guessing the A5 mounts have a "pin" that fits into those dimples. The detail of the dimples was one I was not willing to hunt down and just went with dished scope blocks that fit the screw pattern of the M70 receiver and were sized correctly for the barrel mount.

      For the front sight though some version of flat top.

  • #5
    Thanks for the oiling tip...I'll keep you posted on its progress
    Here is a better pic of my scope/sight blocks...I may still go with the dovetail front sight instead though,

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    • #6
      They look good. You should be good to go with what you have.

      Here are all pictures I have with Sporter stock and FSB.
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      "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

      Comment


      • #7
        Artist rendition of Carlos Hathcock, which appears to be accurate down to the white feather that he wore in his hat when on a mission. Major Land noted that Carlos preferred the slimmer/lighter weight of the Sporter stock: I prefer the higher cheek weld of the Target/Marksman stock (which is also heavier than the Sporter stock, probably a pound heavier), but then again, I can understand the appeal of lugging a lighter stock around the jungle on a long mission 50 years ago...(Note: This picture is posted in the Quantico Shooting Club house, its not mine.)
        Last edited by Random Guy; 06-11-2018, 06:41 AM.

        Comment


        • deltawiskey
          deltawiskey commented
          Editing a comment
          That is a really cool print!!
          I find it interesting that in the book Silent Warrior by Charles Henderson Hathcocks rifle is described as having a Unertl 10X scope on it...guess we will never know for sure anymore.
          DW

        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          I think changing the mag was a case of just changing the rear ocular lens and placing the correspondingly marked ring.

          I see different magnification eyepieces for sale on Ebay.

      • #8
        Got the second coat of BLO done, number 3 (of many more) will go on this coming weekend. It looks rough in the picture for some reason, but it is really smooth...it spent last weekend out in my truck at around 120-130 degrees, it darkened up nicely!
        I'm toying with the idea of a final coat of Tung oil. It is supposed to do a better job of actually sealing the wood than linseed oil does, have any of you done this??

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        Comment


        • SemperFi
          SemperFi commented
          Editing a comment
          Looking good. Just so you don't forget to keep adding coats of oil, you might want to stick a Post-It note on it somewhere you'll see it that says "BLO me", or something like that.

        • deltawiskey
          deltawiskey commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks SemperFi!! : )

      • #9
        The oils are compatible. I have mixed them on an axe handle but not a rifle. The end result was a shiny axe handle.

        The linseed is certainly a more flat finish, the tung oil can gloss but you have to work it to get it to do it.

        I was trying to gloss a friends rifle I did a stock on and it just didnt seem to want to do it while my M40 stock, Garand and 03s seemed to have glossed nicely.

        The gloss has a shine but its not a polyurethane shine its just that you can tell there seems to be a thicker finish with the tung oil.
        "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

        Comment


        • #10
          Ps your stock will darken for the next year as the linseed oil polymerizes.

          Looks great!
          "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

          Comment

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