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Still Hand Banging......

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  • Still Hand Banging......

    ....the bolt open, but it shoots.......

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    Needs to visit a gunsmith for some chamber checking.

    Factory ammo should operate in this like a machine gun.
    "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

  • #2
    I love shooting my M70. I have spent most of my time shooting it off the floor. It's not a prone friendly stock for sure. haha I need a lot of work shooting it prone. But, I guess the journey is half the fun?
    Off the bench it shoots really well, so it's on me Oh well I guess I need to shoot it more!
    They are good looking rifles, aren't they?


    Comment


    • #3
      Why can’t the builder correct the issue?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Skunk View Post
        Why can’t the builder correct the issue?
        Very good question.

        I sent my ammo reloads that have functioned fine in my Garand/03s to chamber to.

        He cut the "Match" chamber and told me my reloads wont chamber.

        Okay I can readily believe Im a retarded reloader and seeing as my Garands/03s are over 75 years old perhaps "Match" chamber and "Springfield Armory" chamber are that different.

        Got it at home it shoots Federal 150 grain hunting ammo fine - chambers, fires, extracts.

        It wouldnt shoot Garand safe CMP sourced Creedmoor Match ammo. Well it chambers and fires but initially I had to almost beat the bolt handle in order to get the brass to extract.

        Sent it back. He said he opened the chamber some. Was leery of opening it any more.

        Now it still wont chamber my reloads, still shoots Federal 150 grain hunting fine, and if I slap the bolt with my hand once, sometimes twice, the Creedmoor brass will extract.

        Just measured Headspace on unfired Creedmoor its at or under 0 pretty much on an RCBS headspace gauge. Fired brass is running plus .005.

        I dont know.

        I dont have HS gauges to check go/no go/field

        Dont want to send it back a third time.

        Think I need a second set of skills to check it out.
        "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

        Comment


        • steveu
          steveu commented
          Editing a comment
          What does the Federal 150 stuff measure on the case gauge?

        • steveu
          steveu commented
          Editing a comment
          Also, can he tell you what "match" reamer he used and how many chambers were cut with it before yours?

        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          see image below

      • #5
        Well, that sucks. I think I have some.30-06 guages I’ll lend you if interested.

        Comment


        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          I might take you up on that.

          Hold that thought.

      • #6
        What do the loaded ammo necks measure and the fired necks measure?

        Comment


        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          I'll check.

      • #7
        Have you tried Federal Gold Medal Match in 168gr ammo in it? I believe part of the problem your having is that the throat isn't long enough for the Creedmoor stuff. Also since the pre-64 actions are control round feed once the extractor pulls off the case rim while trying to extract it's very hard to get it to pop back over the rim and extract, actually most times you have to tap out with a cleaning rod.

        Comment


        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          Haven't been able to find FGMM local (Cabelas).

          The extractor isnt releasing off the case.

          Once I slap the bolt to full rotation the brass pulls right out and would eject away if I didn't catch it.

        • Raven 6
          Raven 6 commented
          Editing a comment
          I wish you luck. Keep us posted on your results.

        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          In the mean time got my M40/.223 together with 32 coats of hand rubbing.

          Will try to zero this weekend

      • #8
        Are the primers flattened or cratered on the Creedmoor ammo? Maybe there's a pressure difference between the different companys? Have you measured the unfired cases? case diameter, oal, Shoulder, etc.
        Just curious how much different the cases are.

        Comment


        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          No significant cratering/pressure signs.

          Unfired cases are near SAAMI spec on an RCBS headspace mic.

          They are about plus .005 after firing using same mic.

          I could measure them on a Hornady to get real numbers.

          If you look in the M70 build thread I posted you can see some ammo diagrams the builder did trying to diagnose the problem.

          My reloads and Creedmoors ammo is "fat" just above the case head.

      • #9
        Some ammo analysis for those that have asked

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        Note Lapua 167 sc is not a reload its Creedmoor factory, new components......

        "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

        Comment


        • #10
          Phil, i think that you need to do a chamber cast with cerrosafe to see exactly what the chamber dimensions are.

          Comment


          • #11
            Same gunsmith built my Model 70, it had issues as well. Wouldn't extract and is picky about what ammo it chambers even though I sent him some ammo I wanted to shoot.
            Instead of rolling the dice and sending it back to him for repairs I decided to send it to someone I trusted and knew would fix the extraction problem.
            As far as the chamber goes, it is what it is. No M72 Match for me, I have to stick with FGMM.
            DW

            Comment


            • #12
              As an update.....

              Gun is going back to builder in a few weeks.

              He has bought me a new Douglas Premium Barrel as I had supplied and will rechamber/work the barrel to the action.

              Im waiting on the purchase of some Sig Sauer 175 SMK 30-06 that is sitting up in NH and Ill be picking up when I take a class within the fortnight.

              Im going to send him some 168 FGMM, the Sig, some Creedmoor 167 and my 168 reloads. My reloads and the Creedmoor stuff are close matches according to the data above in the drawing yet my reloads wont even chamber. The Creedmoor chambers real nice just wont extract without me slapping the bolt handle.

              I intend to load 175s for this rifle so Im expecting the Sig Sauer ammo to be what he chambers to.

              Ill accept there could be a problem with my ammo but the gun isnt right if it wont chamber/extract the other "premium" ammo.
              "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

              Comment


              • pmclaine
                pmclaine commented
                Editing a comment
                Third times a charm.......

                Disappointing in the sense I want this to be an absolute favorite gun and by its looks it should be.

                Glad he seems to be standing by his work. He bought me a new Douglas anyway.

                Putting too many rounds on my other guns not having this one in rotation to take some abuse off the others.

              • deltawiskey
                deltawiskey commented
                Editing a comment
                It just blows my mind that it can take 3 tries for a gunsmith to do his job... your a more patient man than I am for sure!! I guess given enough tries eventually he will get it right? : )
                I'm tempted to buy a bore scope and take a look at what he did to my rifle!

              • pmclaine
                pmclaine commented
                Editing a comment
                Despite its problems it shoots.

                Its present ability only makes me hope it can get better.

            • #13
              At any rate, I would NOT continue to send this rifle to the same gunsmith. PM me If you'd like the name of a few Gunsmith and Master Machinists that I've used for custom rifle work,


              IF the bolt isn't serial numbered to the action, then lug contact could be a problem, but this problem would be evident even in general operation. Pre-64's were still being hand-fitted back in the day and what we generally call a Pre-64 did have some design evolutions, which may mean that you have a non-matching bolt, bottom metal, or even a mag box.

              ISOLATE the problem yourself. Pull everything off that receiver. Remove anything that is an accessory. Eliminate any contact surfaces, including the mag box/ bottom metal. Remove the complete receiver sight and screws and the Unertl base and screws and examine the holes and screw lengths to insure that there is absolutely NO contact. I have seen forward receivers drilled completely through and then 'repaired' with a short threaded rod/shank and then peened in place. A disaster waiting to happen. A vise used improperly can also create a 'flat' on an interior surface.

              I'm looking at the wear marks evident on that bolt in your photo, high spots and hold some reservations as to whether they are fully 'normal.' I've owned a few Pre-64's and they were flawless in operation.

              Somebody will have to explain to me what the difference is between a standard .30-06 chamber and a .30-06 'Match' chamber?

              Good luck!

              Comment


              • #14
                My first inclination was to go to Chad at LRI and start from scratch letting him work his magic with his new 5 axis machine but.....

                Im giving this builder his chance to make it right.

                His communications have been excellent and he has stood by his work to date.

                At the point I started this project he was what was available for M70 work, Raven on a hiatus and Chad not responding to requests for info on his M70 build program.

                Even with its current faults the rifle shoots well.

                Get a good SAAMI reamer, run it until the stripped bolt closes, call it a day.

                It can only get better Im hoping and it aint hurting my wallet at present.
                "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                Comment

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