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Topic of concern..

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  • Topic of concern..

    I don't post allot on here anymore. And I know I tend to rub some people wrong from time to time. If I have and it was not warranted, then I apologise.
    Many of you I have known for some time from here and several I have done good business with. I've always tried to do right by people which in turn hasn't always be reciprocated. It is what it is and I normally just take it in stride.
    I don't want this to be long winded and my intent is not to start a firestorm but this is something I, as well as others whom this has been a topic of discussion feel strongly about. This topic can ultimately have a direct effect on many here on this Forum.
    Again, my intent is not to start drama but to help educate "some" ( not trying to insult the intelligence of others ) that might not know what the impact of somes actions can have on an entire community.

    I had a discussion with a close friend and member here regarding info that has been brought to the attention of one of the command staff at PWS Quantico. The topic was Hobby Lobby "privileges".
    For those that are not aware of what this is. Again, not intending to insult some here's intelligence.
    This is a "privilege" afforded to armorers and people like us (2112's and others) the ability to have builds done in house (PWS) for the "sole purpose of practicing and honing their skills".
    As I said, this is a "Privilege" we are afforded and as we have seen by the past, this privilege has been closed down on several occasions because of the actions of others. Some inside and some out.
    This is an extremely sensitive program as PWS is not a "Business" for the purpose of profit. "Hobby Lobby has been closed for many months". Thus there have been no rifles outside of Gov. issue weapons being built in house PWS.
    As said, this is a program designed for the Armorers to help hone their skills in order to provide a better product for todays war fighters.
    In the very recent past it has been brought to the attention of some at PWS that someone is marketing that they have a large number rifles being delivered that have been built "By the Worlds Finest at the place of the Worlds Finest". Now this isn't necessarily implying that they are coming from PWS but it definitely raises a Red Flag of those there. This which could possibly be detrimental to this program ever being afforded to us again in the future.
    I am posting this for the purpose of hoping that we as a community do not condone this activity.
    I am no different than the rest of us on here. I, like most all of you, enjoy collecting these rifles. I as well as some of you are extremely grateful for the privilege of having many built at PWS over the years and hope that others here as well as myself are able to again in the future.
    Please take this info into consideration when and if dealing with those marketing this.
    This site as well as others are highly monitored by the staff at PWS. Please keep this in mind when posting.
    Again, I hope this doesn't offend those here because this is not my intention and if it does then it probably pertains to you.

  • #2
    Thank you for posting on the status of the "Hobby Lobby" program at PWS. I am an entry level collector compared to most here, and consider the few PWS built pieces I have as the centerpiece of my collection. I do not collect for gain or profit. I was sickened several years ago when a major seller tried to, as it appeared to me, control the market of PWS built rifles. I do not blame the USMC management for stopping the Hobby Lobby program with the marketing approach being used. I do hope that stopping the Hobby Lobby is only a temporary measure until some sort of safeguard is in place to prevent commercial activity, such has high volume multiple copy production in the future. Thanks, Harry


    • #3
      With match grade modular rifles becoming more acceptable, I can see gunsmithing skills becoming less relevant any way. No need to "hone" what isn't being done.
      You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.


      • #4
        Originally posted by SemperFi View Post
        With match grade modular rifles becoming more acceptable, I can see gunsmithing skills becoming less relevant any way. No need to "hone" what isn't being done.
        I don't see how that is a constructive statement. There is more to building any precision firearm than buying parts and putting them together. The rifle and pistol team is still supported. I do feel that the acquirement of the mk13 could be a nail in the 2112 coffin but we aren't there yet.
        I fully support Rim8541's statement. Those that support the afore mentioned and people like him ultimately hurt those at PWS because of raising scrutiny due to uninformed collectors. If you have ever worked somewhere where everyone is under a microscope, you know that it sucks and is a lot of not required stress. This website has caused a lot contention with Quantico. Especially with people bragging about parts acquired or advertised for sale. Many of the guys I know and am friends with will not work with people outside of uniform because of this. This isn't throwing blame at anyone on here but more of passing information.
        Performing these tasks, affords many of the armorers a way to acquire skills, tools, and help their family. It stimulates the younger armorers to tap into the older knowledge base on platforms that they may not have. This keeps the knowledge alive for long gone systems like the m40,a1,3,5 and m14's. I prefer to not have any USMC replica/repro/clone rifle built by anyone that wasn't trained at Quantico for this reason. PWS is still an asset to the military and USMC warfighter.


        • #5
          Can you just out the alleged perp and make him persona non-grata at PWS instead of painting with such a broad brush and affecting the entirety of the hobby?


          • #6
            Im not going to get into all the back and forth with this. My purpose was trying to educate some on what they should avoid as tempting as it could be. Bottom line, all that needs to be known is that if someone contacts you stating that they can have a rifle built for you at PWS for a certain "fee", this is "Illegal". PWS is not a civilian business. This is a Gov. installation being run buy active duty US Marines.
            Is there allot of "grey area" here. Sure, absolutely.....hence why it is so important we are careful about how we handle business with them and how we deal with people that may be seen as abusing this privilege. I want you to keep in mind that this could also possibly all be a scam as Hobby Lobby has been closed and no rifles have been turned out of PWS for a long number of months.


            • #7
              Originally posted by DeepC Infidel View Post

              I don't see how that is a constructive statement.
              It wasn't intended to constructive, or destructive. It is simply a personal prediction based on current trends, and may pertain to this topic, or not. Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.

              You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.


              • #8
                rlm8541, thanks for the update re this topic. I am bummed by the situation and I concur with Harry's remaks. I hope that privileges might be restored in 2019...

                If my memory is correct, a person who couldn't refrain from marketing his services re M40A1 replicas stopped posting here on M40 forum a while ago, possibly banned?
                In addition, I don't think he is exactly welcome at PWS either - if my local guy is correct about him having become a persona non-grata for reasons that I am not privy to.

                I could be way off base, but I wonder if two sentences in post #21 in this thread is the source of the current dust-up:

                "I am expecting (9) rifles built by there worlds finest at the home of the worlds deadliest."

                Since hobby lobby has been closed down for many months, I find his word choice from a week or so ago - problematic. I think he is marketing, hyping or otherwise implying something that is presumably not true. I guess rlk8541 is providing a warning of sorts....

                Again, I will note that the individual in that link was active on this forum in years past, but I think he might have joined the "banned camp". I"ll defer to the site moderators.


                • #9
                  A few months ago I had "someone" tell me that they could get a build done at PWS. A couple of people said "no way" and one even called his contact to PWS and he said "not right now" and was not sure if or when they may start again. My most recent gossip was that they may start again soon. I gave up and delivered my stuff to Mark at Raven in September.


                  • pmclaine
                    pmclaine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    You will be happy.

                • #10
                  It is not impossible to have stuff worked on or built there. Is it common or easy to build those relationships within to get work done? Absolutely not! But it is not impossible....With that being said, this is why it is so important to not allow it to be abused.
                  We are hopeful that these limited privileges will be restored in the near future.

                  MikeW.....I have never met Mark from Raven or personally had work done by him but I have seen his rifles and for what it's worth, you will be ecstatic with the final product you receive from him. By no means will you receive an inferior product from him than what you would receive from PWS.