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M40 Redfield Widefield scopes

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  • M40 Redfield Widefield scopes

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    Last edited by USMCSGT0331; 11-21-2018, 10:52 PM.

  • #2
    ...........
    Last edited by USMCSGT0331; 11-21-2018, 10:52 PM.

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    • #3
      Those unique Widefields. Thanks for posting!
      You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

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      • pmclaine
        pmclaine commented
        Editing a comment
        Looks like a 90 degree crown cut, like mine! Nice.

        Whats with the Private being on the gun?

      • Game Warden
        Game Warden commented
        Editing a comment
        The guy with the most knowledge and experience of the sniper team is the spotter. The shooter is the least experienced and usually the lower rank. The spotter calls the wind and range adgustments for the shooter due to having the most experience...hence the phrase 'trigger monkey', monkey on the trigger' or 'monkey behind the gun'.

      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        Just so nobody is confused, Mesca has it right- that Widefield is on an M40A1.
        Last edited by SemperFi; 04-18-2016, 04:31 PM.

    • #4
      Powder coat?

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      • #5
        Very interesting! Thank you for this post!

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        • #6
          I will add scope #11 to this thread. This one is particular as it has a distinctive feature that USMCSGT0331 scopes dont have.

          We are trying to find more information about these scopes. We talked at length about the finish. Its hard to explain. Its not paint, maybe powdercoat? The finish was applied prior to assembly, and its very different from the standard Redfield 'matte black' finish. Its not 'chalky', very mininal gloss to it.

          The magnification ring and eyepiece lock ring shows heavy use from being adjusted a lot. So the finish is probably not as durable as powdercoat...

          According to the previous owner, the scope was stored for many years (mid 80's?) with the scope caps on, the caps model number is imprint on the lenses (check the pic)... duh. Its out to the lenses refurb shop as it wont come off. It came with heavily used Redfield low rings. The screw heads are crooked, my belief is that the scope was installed and removed many, many times. It does make sense as they are prototype scopes.

          I have a lead on another scope. Should be mine after I make an offer that cant be refused, lol.

          Will post better pics when its back from the lenses refurb shop.








          Last edited by MescaBug; 04-18-2016, 08:01 AM.

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          • #7
            Here's my post from last October (2015) re this same type of Redfield scope, "US PROPERTY" marked and serial # 0006 (which I presume was evaluated in the 1977 to 1979-ish period):

            "Regarding trial scopes that were not adopted, Peter Senich in his research indicated that in the late 1970s when the USMC was updating the M40 to the M40A1 configuration, several scopes were evaluated as a potential replacement for the original Redfield 3-9x scopes. According to Senich, some of the scopes that were considered - but not adopted were the Leupold M8, Weaver T10, and a 'Widefield' Redfield.' Of course in 1980 the 10x Unertl was chosen, but here's what was evaluated in the late 1970s regarding a particular Redfield scope:

            Senich wrote: "The Redfield 3x-9x variable-power Widefield Low-Profile telescope with an Accu-Range reticle and black matte finish was among the rifle scopes considered for use with the M40A1 sniper rifle. The model shown here is the early version of the Widefield scope. The sight evaluated by the Marine Corps featured the low-profile configuration on both the objective bell and the eyepiece. (Bob Bell)."

            Intrigued, I actually bought such a scope earlier this summer that is matte black and is stamped "US PROPERTY *0006", and it has the Accu-Range or "tombstone" reticle. (see pics)

            Well, I took it to Quantico this past weekend for their twice annual vintage sniper match, and had some of the old timers there at the range look at it, and two guys familiar with the program confirmed it was indeed one of the USMC evaluation scopes from the late 1970s. Jim Land's son was there with his real US Property marked M40A1 (see last pic - it has a Weaver T10 scope), and said he has two of these same Redfield scopes at home, one is number *0003 and the other scope has the "US PROPERTY" and number scratched out so its now illegible. He said that my scope would be "correct" on an M40 or early M40A1 with a 'smear' stock....too bad I don't have access to a M40A1 smear stock, as it could be an interesting non-fielded/evaluation M40A1 clone that I could otherwise build up. Such a rifle could join my M40 repo.

            The guys at Quantico think Redfield probably submitted 10 or 12 scopes for evaluation by the USMC back in the late 1970s, and a few survived and were surplused/discarded at some point. I should also note that this scope doesn't have any serial # on the bottom of the windage turret housing, which is what you see on production Redfield scopes of this vintage.
            (UPDATE/EDIT: Based on this 2016 thread, perhaps 100 were submitted for testing instead of a dozen or so that had been mentioned by some old timers).

            Anyhow, just thought this odd little scope might be of interest for historical purposes."

            April 2016 update: A local collector/buddy who has a huge collection of vintage sniper scopes really wanted my little Redfield scope for his collection. He has done a lot of favors for me over the past few years, so last winter I traded it for one of his 1903 rifles w/ original 1936 barrel and vintage C stock. So I no longer have it, but it fits in his collection quite well. I should also note that in a June 2001 issue of American Rifleman re the M40, M40A1 and then new M40A3 rifles, their is a nice color picture of an M40A1 in Jim Land's collection that has one of these Widefield scopes mounted on a semi-smear stocked M40A1, presumably that's scope is either serial #3, or the other scope he has with a scratched-out s/n. That 2001 article reinforces what Senich's book states, that this Redfield scope was evaluated for the new M40A1 rifle in the late 1970s, but not selected. I guess the performance wasn't as good as the USMC required, and they ultimately adopted the now legendary Unertl 10x.

            Lastly, my scope had at some point been mounted on an M1D sniper rifle, using the 1" USGI M1D mount..but the seller didn't know the history of the scope.
            Last edited by Random Guy; 04-18-2016, 10:00 AM.

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            • #8
              Thanks guys, one more impossible to find item to look for...

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              • #9
                Great Stuff! Thanks for sharing.

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by Random Guy View Post
                  Well, I took it to Quantico this past weekend for their twice annual vintage sniper match, and had some of the old timers there at the range look at it, and two guys familiar with the program confirmed it was indeed one of the USMC evaluation scopes from the late 1970s. Jim Land's son was there with his real US Property marked M40A1 (see last pic - it has a Weaver T10 scope), and said he has two of these same Redfield scopes at home, one is number *0003 and the other scope has the "US PROPERTY" and number scratched out so its now illegible. He said that my scope would be "correct" on an M40 or early M40A1 with a 'smear' stock....too bad I don't have access to a M40A1 smear stock, as it could be an interesting non-fielded/evaluation M40A1 clone that I could otherwise build up. Such a rifle could join my M40 repo.

                  I should also note that this scope doesn't have any serial # on the bottom of the windage turret housing, which is what you see on production Redfield scopes of this vintage.
                  No Redfield Widefield, and that includes the commercial/production, have serial numbers on the turret. They're all blank. So this is not a distintive feature of the Widefield scopes provided to the Corps. 100 scopes were provided, so it make sense that they have a 2 or 3-digits sequential number. Why your scope as 4-digits is a mystery. I would love to see scope #0003. Maybe they switched to 2/3-digits after a few scopes.

                  From what we've found, the blank scopes might have been used to test different finishes, as they look brand new, and have no sequential numbers. My guess is that they didnt bother marking them. When they found the correct 'recipe', they numbered them.

                  Scope #11 and #42 shows heavy usage, meaning they were tested at length. Both shows the exact same finish, same semi-gloss. The US PROPERTY marking can only belongs to the Corps. The Corps was way ahead of the Army in sniper equipement. The Army had the ART scopes on semi-autos. The next sniping platform was the M24 with Leupold which came out in 1988.

                  It also makes sense that the Corps ordered scopes similar to what they used for the M40 program; 3-9X, ranging reticle (Accu-Range 200-600).

                  Still lots of research to do!
                  Last edited by MescaBug; 04-25-2016, 01:53 PM.

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                  • #11
                    Recently acquired Redfield Widefield scope #10. Notice how the elevation turret cap has more wear than the windage cap. It make sense that prototype scopes have been tested extensively at various ranges, especially with the Accu-Range reticle. The elevation cap must have been put off/on many, many times.

                    Finish and wear is very similar to scope #11. Both #10 and #11 have a very distinctive feature that links them.. I wont tell more for now, as I am still investigating.









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                    • #12
                      Very nice find!

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                      • #13
                        I ran across this old thread while researching my grandfather's old redfield low pro. I couldnt figure out why it doesn't have an actual serial number anywhere on it, just DO or 00 on the turrent. That's the only markings on it besides Red field 3x-9x
                        Any help? Input? Would be appreciated

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                        • SemperFi
                          SemperFi commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Every time they would goof up on a scope, they'd say, "Oh-oh", and stamp it as such.
                          jk!

                      • #14
                        ​​​​​@SemperF Hahaaaaaa Good one !

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