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  • Another chance!

    Get your check books out as the CMP is giving us another shot at one!

    http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail....gton-Model-700

  • #2
    Wait for the 7 digit that's coming that's still sealed in the plastic bag!
    jack1911

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah but that will go for 15K plus!!! I would much rather have one that I can shoot!

      Comment


      • #4
        And it's past $15,000! Completely ridiculous that it got up this high, the rifle has a ton of issues. Hope the bidders know what they're buying. Here's what I wrote over at the CMP forum (wonder if that thread identifying it as an M40 was the catalyst for the crazy bidding):

        There are multiple issues with the gun and it's definitely not worth $5k+. That being said, the money is going to a great organization and a worthy cause. I just want prospective bidders to know what they're getting into before they drop big bucks on this item.

        What you're buying at this auction is essentially just the receiver, since the other parts have been messed with or are missing (satin black Redfield scope). The serial number puts this gun right with all the other known 6257xxx rifles, so at least the receiver is good to go.

        The stock is missing the original metal buttplate (part # 16601) and has a rubber pad installed. It is impossible to know when and why this modification was done, it could even have been put on there for a shooting team member as opposed to a sniper. The stock also appears to have a brass pin pressed in on the top of the grip directly behind the receiver. This would have been done by an armorer trying to fix a crack in the stock. I'd imagine you might have issues with this if you were to actually shoot the rifle on a regular basis. The action and the first inch or so of the barrel have also been bedded to the stock.

        Looking closely at the pics, I don't see any barrel markings, so it's also possible that the barrel has been cut down and re-chambered or it's a replacement. There is also a ton of rust on the crown, which means that the inside of the barrel is probably rusty and/or pitted. I doubt this rifle would shoot very well. The recoil lug is also unusually thick, definitely something that was added when the rifle was re-barreled.

        The base is a Redfield 700SA, which are pretty common. This is correct for the later 7 digit rifles, but aren't anywhere near as valuable as the original 40X bases that the 6 digit rifles had. The rifle is also missing it's scope, which should be a satin black Redfield 3-9x. However, glossy black Redfield scopes from the same time period are easy to come by and can be used to complete the set (tokiwartooth on the forum can also anodize the scope in a matte finish if need be).


        I'd rather get one with a scope and negotiate the price down - http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100604279

        Comment


        • #5
          There are 2 brass pins behind the safety, second one covered partially by tang and you can see the crack in the wood between the 2 pins. Barrel contour looks like perhaps an A1 contour? With heavier lug, butt cut straight for shotgun pad, thicker recoil lug and the shade treed sling studs vs. Wichita's it's now a real expensive 'parts' bastard rig!!!!! LOL

          Comment


          • #6
            What blows me away is that these guys drive the price up rather tan bidding at the last minute. The only word I have to describe it is stupidity. As far as the issues the rifle has, it is what it is. I like the fact that it is altered. On most of these forums guys get wrapped around the axel on details that they heard about. There are a lot of photos of weapons being tweaked back then. M14's with homemade 40 and 60 round mags, buttplates, etc... my thoughts though and mine alone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow, the Stock is C--P, the barrel is C--P, the Guard and follower are wrong, the only thing that is correct is the action and the base.
              $15K+ later all you will have is an assembled rifle.

              Its NOT and M40A1 proto as some have suggested. Marines did not use 6 mil receivers. Its likely Air Force mod or it was modded by the AMU, as a ton of 6 Mils were passed to the AMU.

              Bid early, bid often....but don't bid stupid!

              Comment


              • SDWhirlwind
                SDWhirlwind commented
                Editing a comment
                Marty-If you are referring to my comment as being a "M40A1 proto" that was not my intent. I merely commented that contour was similar and perhaps someone somewhere took an A1 takeoff or contour close to an A1 and screwed it along with a heavier lug onto that earlier receiver! Who knew way back when they were creating a $15K+ masterpiece from an armful of ugly parts!

              • Badgerord
                Badgerord commented
                Editing a comment
                SD,
                Not you!, I have had a few people contact me suggesting its a Holy grail USMC prototype rifle and thusly worth a MINT as an unverified whatever!

                ​​​​​​​RLM, You are right, I am just becoming jaded by fakes and parts guns being offered up by people that were taken advantage of by someone and passing the deal along to the next guy!

                As I said before: Bid early, bid often....but don't bid stupid!

            • #8
              You guys are completely contradicting everything we talk about......especially you 0331.....A conversation that has been had a million times on here.
              Its just like everything else we trade, sell, collect. Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay and how bad that person wants it. I know myself along with most here have paid much more for items that others think they are worth. Its a real deal later production M40 action that I have been informed came from an east coast base MWR armory. Probably used for a MWR base hunting rifle.
              Are beat to shit Unertl MST 10X's worth $6K?. Are Greenies worth $4500? Is a painted Gen1 stock really worth $3000+? Is a USMC Sniper marked S&B scope cap worth $500? Are the green and tan Caddy's worth what they are going for? Many would say not. Although others would say yes. Why? because we want them and are willing to pay for them.
              So is that action by its self worth $15K? Apparently someone thinks so (no Im not bidding on it). Im completely cool with that and hope he builds it true to form and doesn't just throw it in his safe and hoards it like some I know......(Holy hell.....I just went "Full TMA"...I swore I would never go "Full TMA"....hahahahah)

              Comment


              • USMCSGT0331
                USMCSGT0331 commented
                Editing a comment
                Hey bro, never go full TMA, lol.

                I don't believe that I've contradicted anything, just merely pointing out the item's actual condition, especially when people on other forums have no idea what this rifle actually is. Seems like a lot of other people on this forum are in complete agreement with this assessment as well. We have these forums to discuss items and educate each other. I wrote my post with on the CMP forum to answer questions and give a detailed analysis of the rifle. This is something that is constantly done with the 1903's and M1 Garands, why shouldn't we be doing it with an M40? And yes, the 03's and Garands that have issues (even if it's a rare type/varient) will sell for less money, even at the top of the market prices the CMP auctions will bring. I believe that people should know exactly what they're getting into and I'm trying to provide them with usable knowledge before they start bidding on an item like this.

                As for the other items you listed, the MST100's that are beat to shit aren't selling for $6k at the CMP auction. The one's bringing that kind of money are the refurbished one's or unmodified in great condition. Besides that, almost every scope the CMP has sold has been in working/functioning condition, there have been only a handful that have needed parts or refurbishing. Compare that to this M40. The M40 has a cracked stock and a rusted/pitted barrel, both of those items need to be replaced. If people bid on this gun the same way they bid on the scopes, the rifle would be selling for a lot less.

                I believe that the greenies are worth $4,500 due to their rarity and condition. I've only seen 1 or 2 greenies that have truly been in poor condition or have replacement parts, what is out there on the market is fully functioning and ready to be put on a rifle. Not only that, but they retain their original parts and finish, so they are as issued. Compare that to this M40. The M40 has been modified and the parts are junk, not to mention that there are probably more 7 digit M40's in people's collections than there are greenies! Hell, one of my friends has 3 or 4 of the 7 digits in his collection, that's just one person. The CMP has 2 at auction right now and a few more on the way between now and the end of the year. I'd say that it's more difficult to obtain a greenie than it is to find a 7 digit M40. Rarity and condition are factors.

                We both bid up that painted M40 stock a few years back and you won that battle. I believe that it went for around $2,000 once the dust settled. Yes, that stock was completely beat up, but it has original paint from a Vietnam war sniper intact. This is the only M40 stock I've ever seen from that era that still retain it's war paint. The value of this item is based completely on it being a 100% unique piece, there isn't another like it. Compare that to this M40. There are at least 30 or so 7 digit guns floating around in people's collections right now, with more being released every year from the CMP. I'd pay more for a one-off item than I would for something that it actually quite common (prices relative to each respective item's group, not compared directly to each other). Again, rarity is a key factor in driving prices.

                I don't believe that the USMC S&B caps are worth $500, but people are no longer paying those prices. The caps were once very rare outside the military and a few (not the majority, not an average, literally just a few) sold for $500+. Now that the hardcore collectors have been able to get their hands on them, prices have dropped dramatically. That's what happens when a collectible item is no longer rare. Case in point, check out the guy currently selling them on gunbroker. He keeps changing his asking price (usually somewhere between $300 and $450) because he can't figure out where the market stands on the value of that item. Unfortunately for him, he might sell one for $300, but that's about it. He's had those caps listed for about a year and they still haven't sold, which means they're priced too high.

                The tan and green Protecto Caddies are similar to the S&B scope caps, but there are a few differences in why the cases can sell for more money. First, it's a more substantial item (being many times larger than a scope cap) and it is something that people take notice in when they are displayed with a rifle. Second, the cases are far more rare than the scope caps, or even the 7 digit rifles! Due to these factors, collectors are willing to pay more for one of these cases compared to a more common case. Rarity and condition apply here as well.

                You're right about people's wants and willingness to pay, but every circumstance written above shows common factors that influence collector's decisions. When those factors change, so do the collector's wants and willingness to pay. That is why I expressed my disbelief over the current bid on this rifle, it goes against every other item in the above analysis. The rifle is more common than than previously realized, more of these rifles are becoming available to collectors every year and this rifle is in absolute shit condition. Going back to your original comment, I haven't contradicted myself and neither have the other collectors in the market for these items. The price of this rifle is a fluke and it probably comes down to 2 rich guys that don't care about anything written above and just want something for their collection. There is also a chance that this could become the new normal for prices on these, but we'll need to see how the other auctions go before we can determine that. I think a good judge will be the barreled action that's for sale. Will that go for $15,000? After all, you're just paying for the receivers at both these auctions (the parts are garbage, but I do think the .223 barrel is pretty cool).

                Also, I know you hate how I buy multiples of the same items and hoard them (you've been giving me shit for years, lol), but it's something that I'm interested in and I find it enjoyable. Many of the parts that appear to be multiples of the same are actually quite different, my thread on the welded mounts is a pretty good representation of this. These parts aren't just thrown in a safe to gather dust. I have my father photograph each new item and I post it on this forum. I do my best to share these rare items (in high definition and true color photographs) and provide information about them. I spend a lot of time and money doing this, just to add to the knowledge base that is this forum. So, the items are indeed in use and being shared with like minded people from around the world. I also display some of these items in my apartment and if I actually had an outdoor rifle range near me (Chicago), I'd be able to get some use out of the rifles (just snagged a few cans of Mk248 Mod 1 ammo for my Mk13 Mod 7 and it's driving me crazy not having a place to enjoy this shit!).

                Damn, this ended up being pretty long, sorry about that!

            • #9
              People......you have options

              http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail....arreled-Action




              Comment


              • #10
                Did you see this.....

                "There are scratches on the trigger guard."

                I think I'll pass.
                "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by pmclaine View Post
                  did you see this.....

                  "there are scratches on the trigger guard."

                  i think i'll pass.
                  hahaha!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    The thing is, that action matches the scope I bought earlier this year...

                    Comment


                    • pmclaine
                      pmclaine commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That's what I meant.

                      I know you sought hard for your Greenie and probably paid a fair price for it but even fair prices are not chump change.

                      Now the matching receiver comes "available".

                      Its a double edged sword.

                      Fantastic you have the ability to make a hens tooth by matching your Greenie to its original receiver. That's a reason to smile.

                      On the other edge these rifles in poor shape apparently bid up over $10K. Now there is good reason to cry.

                      If that gun goes for a high value Im guessing your Greenie would become very attractive to that deep pocketed buyer.

                      Isnt that BA .223? I wonder what the SN on the bolt is and if it matches.

                    • Majikani
                      Majikani commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes, exactly, except not the greenie - the satin black. I'm going to have to take out a second mortgage on my house for this... :-(

                    • Majikani
                      Majikani commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Pretty sure the bolt is not original...

                  • #13
                    Not mine, but there's one on gunbroker, and with a "buy it now option"
                    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/709507401

                    Comment


                    • SemperFi
                      SemperFi commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Now, THIS one was put together by someone who knew what he was doing!
                      Last edited by SemperFi; 10-17-2017, 09:19 PM.

                  • #14
                    Well well........allot more to that rifle than I was originally informed. Disregard my last about a MWR rifle. If i had the cash i would bid it to the moon.
                    This rifle should never be pulled apart but for those bidding on it.... Was brought to my attention. If you plan on tying to restore it to its original configuration, the receiver has more than likely been opened up to accommodate the A1 contour barrel. A take off VN M40 barrel will probably fall straight through it.
                    Last edited by rlm8541; 10-17-2017, 08:53 PM.

                    Comment


                    • SemperFi
                      SemperFi commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Pretty sure the threads are the same. No?

                  • #15
                    So I got a quick what if question about these receivers......If I ever had the funds to buy one of these bad boys, personally I would go through the trouble of finding a real M40 take off barrel. So here's the what if question. Will a factory take off barrel work on these receivers if they were trued up after a previous rebarreling? I'm not a gunsmith, but truing a receiver sometimes involves recutting the threads in the receiver which changes the overall inside diameter for lack of better words....the smith will remove several thousands truing/rethreading? It seems like a factory take off barrel would be a smaller in diameter verses the newly cut receiver....sloppy fit? I'm sure this question could be answered if I had the receiver in front of me.....but I would have a hard time purchasing a piece of history and finding out I couldn't use a factory take of barrel.....super expensive what if.....like I said, not a rifle builder....I just had a what if question. Good luck to the fella or fella's who wins these gems.

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