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  • #16
    Its historical curiosity for the most part.

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    How much was the guy carrying it? How much was the gear?

    Im finding more often than not the dated gear will let you down or this guy isnt up to the challenge.

    Either way more respect deserved to the guys that made do with the old gear.
    Last edited by pmclaine; 12-24-2017, 06:57 AM.
    "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

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    • #17

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      • steveu
        steveu commented
        Editing a comment
        Your personal collection???

      • deltawiskey
        deltawiskey commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice!!!!!
        DW

      • J!m
        J!m commented
        Editing a comment
        Ok... so are they available? I’d be willing to get one if the finish is “acetone proof”.

    • #18
      I purchased that bottom one. It looks good.

      Comment


      • pmclaine
        pmclaine commented
        Editing a comment
        The bottom one was the one I thought the nicest of the bunch.

        As guys discussed these they kept referencing "paint".

        I assume they are just standadrd stocks layed up with different colors and hand applied in a way to try and mimic the smears.

        The materials though are still the modern materials same as the forest stocks. The modern material doesnt "flow" the way the older original smear dyes did.

        Im guessing the smear dies were somewhat "watery" while the new are more like a "paste".

        Close but not exact.

        Would make a good "faux" smear for the guy that cant find what is becoming "hens teeth" or worth bitcoin.

        If you are in to experimenting with your new stock Im betting if you hit it with some real fine wet paper to give it a gloss it will even closer approximate the old smear.

    • #19
      Here are some better pictures of the one I bought.

      Comment


      • gwdhky5
        gwdhky5 commented
        Editing a comment
        nice stock, I see these were made by McM. how may I purchase one for a build? thanks, Andy

    • #20
      Good compare/contrast.

      Seems to show that the colors used are the same just applied differently.

      The original smears appear to be different colors to my eyes - the base green more green and the light green paler.

      This is one of Sgt0331s beauties and I think it represents the later end of smear production McMillan would probably be most successful trying to replicate this with present technology.

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      Tough to really judge colors unless they are all together.

      The colors on this smear next to a forest show more difference...

      Click image for larger version

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      "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

      Comment


      • #21
        My question is are these coming straight from McMillan like this or is someone sanding them down after they receive them?

        Kelly seemed very adamant both on the phone and when he posted on the forum here that he would never allow the smear to be reproduced by McMillan so as not to devalue the originals.

        We know the difference now but in ten years whose to say someone who has no knowledge of the originals will be able to tell. Especially with so many return stock certificates floating around without stocks and vise versa.

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        • #22
          And for those whom do have certs for their stocks such as I and others here. I have nothing other than my word validating that they belong to the stocks I have. This is my issue with repro parts in general. I compleeeeetely understand the desire and the market for them. Its great for those that are unable to acquire authentic parts for whatever reason and gives them the ability to enjoy the community and build pieces they love. But I also see this as a very lucrative and possibly dangerous market for those unknowing that are taken advantage of by those looking to make a quick dollar at the expense of the uneducated.
          I know that we aren't the only collectors that suffer from the infiltration of counterfeit, reproduction parts or goods. Im just glad that there is this reference site here for those who have questions or concerns and can benefit from the knowledge here.......You can only hope that they do their research prior to spending their hard earned money.......Can not advocate education enough.

          Ok...Carry on!..lol

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          • #23
            Originally posted by rlm8541 View Post
            And for those whom do have certs for their stocks such as I and others here. I have nothing other than my word validating that they belong to the stocks I have. This is my issue with repro parts in general. I compleeeeetely understand the desire and the market for them. Its great for those that are unable to acquire authentic parts for whatever reason and gives them the ability to enjoy the community and build pieces they love. But I also see this as a very lucrative and possibly dangerous market for those unknowing that are taken advantage of by those looking to make a quick dollar at the expense of the uneducated.
            I know that we aren't the only collectors that suffer from the infiltration of counterfeit, reproduction parts or goods. Im just glad that there is this reference site here for those who have questions or concerns and can benefit from the knowledge here.......You can only hope that they do their research prior to spending their hard earned money.......Can not advocate education enough.

            Ok...Carry on!..lol
            Had to quote this because everything here bears repeating once again, rlm definitely nails it. It takes a lot of trust when someone is trying to acquire original parts, especially when it comes to smear stocks (since McMillan also released them to the general public back in the day). Also, there are fake A1 certs floating around as well. I believe I covered it in another thread, but one faker went to the trouble of finding the correct watermarked paper in order to make fraudulent certs.

            This is exactly why I took great lengths to create extremely secure certs of authenticity for the Mk13 Mod 0 stocks that I've been selling. Each cert has a custom watermark that was designed by me (not a generic office supply paper watermark), Kelly McMillan personally signed each cert (wet ink signature is more difficult to forge than a facsimile signature), each cert is numbered to it's corresponding stock and there aren't any extra certs in circulation (1 cert per stock, that's it).

            Taking the extra time to certify every single original part takes all the guesswork out of buying on the secondhand market down the road. Unfortunately, no one thought to take it to this level when the return stocks were released, as they were viewed as $200 used/worn out/old surplus equipment. I don't think anyone foresaw the future value of the A1 stocks or thought about how some non-military stocks would be passed off as fakes by unscrupulous sellers. How many here can identify an old USMC A1 return smear stock from an old civilian smear stock? Probably not many and it is impossible to do so by only using photos.

            Many of us who are familiar with the USMC return A1 stocks can see how they differ from these new smear stocks, but novice collectors might easily be fooled. This can also happen with other items as well. Hell, all sellers have to do to increase the value/desirability of their item is say nothing. Have you ever seen replica parts for sale online, but the ad doesn't say anything about the item being a replica? You might even recognise the sellers name and know that the item is a replica without the ad saying so, but do the new members of our community have this innate knowledge? No, they don't. The unscrupulous sellers abide by the rules of "caveat emptor" when they use this tactic to draw in the new guys who are looking for a rare item, but this practice is extremely dishonost and absolutely digusting.

            And yet it happens everyday on ebay and other places. And now said item is in circulation with no provenance and will eventually end up changing hands down the road as the real McCoy. Buy/sell/buy/sell and now a replica item has changed hands enough times to aquire a collector's provenance which doesn't get disputed. When a dispute does come about, some people set facts aside, accept the item as genuine and the cycle continues. Remember that crazy fake M40 that had popped up for sale a few times in the past few years? I tried to warn the guys on the M14 forum and people with absolutely no knowledge about M40's were arguing with me that it was real. Now think of all the civilian stocks, repro mounts, bases, flash hiders, etc, etc, etc, that are on the market changing hands in this manner. It can get very murky, very quickly.

            I'm not trying to discredit repro parts, I'm trying to raise awareness of how easily a seller can turn an item from replica to fake (whether intentional or not). Perception is reality.

            However, to reiterate the light at the end of the tunnel that rlm described in his post, knowledge is power. We have an amazing reference site here and it is available to all collectors, for free. Look at the pics, read the descriptions, join the discussion. If someone is new to the community and is unsure about an item, just ask because someone here will have an answer. Just like every other areas of collecting, there are pitfalls, but we as a community can work together to mitigate that. Let's continue to document everything, to include these new smear stocks. Compare/contrast/analyze and we can lay the groundwork for newcomers to follow. These efforts will help establish facts, while simultaneously curbing misinformation and fraudulent actions.

            Hope this all makes sense and isn't just the ramblings of a madman, but the community needs to remain vigilant.

            Comment


            • #24
              We all have our reasons why and where we spend our money. I lost interest in trying to make anyone understand my reasons years ago. I will say this and I know some out there will agree. Not all, but some will understand. After 22 years in the Corps as an Infantryman and 8541, I know something about stalk lanes, carrying a load, hot as hell and freezing cold weather, and your garden-variety military insanity day-in and day-out. Broken drag-bag straps, pixie dust in the stalk lanes, stalking on a rattlesnake at Camp Pendleton's Pulgas Lake, etc... Looking through a scope and seeing a sniper Instructor falling of the back of a 5-Ton truck. Priceless! During that time there were good times and great memories. I can look at my M40A1 with Unertl and my Return stock built rifle and remember those times. I have Friends I served with and when they are over and see these rifles, stories I forgot are generated and the beer starts to flow and the laughing begins. To me, you can't put a price on that. Yeah, and it is a piece of history. My history and the men I served with.

              S/F,

              Comment


              • pmclaine
                pmclaine commented
                Editing a comment
                These rifles you speak of need a photo introduction sir.

            • #25
              In all honesty, I am confused by the stock that I purchased. Like Kelly said, the description was light on details even though it came from a well known seller. I am trying to figure out it’s source. I have some conflicting information.

              I will post post additional info and I find out more.

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              • #26
                Pictures as requested by Pmclaine. Return stock rifle Cerakote green with a Vietnam era Redfield 3X9 with tombstone reticle. This is my whitetail deer rifle. I already have a Unertl scoped M40A1. Pictured
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Crosshairs6; 02-14-2018, 01:24 PM.

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                • #27
                  Before I mounted the Redfield.
                  Attached Files

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                  • pmclaine
                    pmclaine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Great looking rifles. Thank you for posting.

                    The liquor cabinet looks inviting also.

                • #28
                  Another picture of my "Green Rifle"
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    With all that said, do we know who actually made those stocks? McM yes, but what about the finish?

                    I must agree with rlm and 0331. We all know repro parts can create some confusion on the market. IMO, smear stocks are unique, rare and desirable items. Having repros floating around can only confuse buyers and fool people who dont have the knowledge to verify its authenticity.

                    Just my 2 cents...

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