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Unertl 10X Sniper objective keyway stamp position

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  • Unertl 10X Sniper objective keyway stamp position

    So, now there's discussion about that little "dent" in the objective bell of the Unertl USMC SNIPERs. The "dent" being a stamp that is designed to engage a keyway in the objective cell to prevent rotation. It is usually found at the bottom of the bell, but sometimes in other places. Here is data I collected via CMP auction photos (from the ones that weren't so heavily painted as to obscure the mark), plus my own Unertl:

    Total of 80 samples (46 stock Unertls, and 34 USO-refurbished Unertls)
    10 of 80 have the mark in positions other than near the bottom
    15 of 80 have the mark near the bottom, but off to one side too far to call "bottom"
    55 of 80 have the mark at the very bottom, or close enough to the very bottom to include

    Interestingly, the ten scopes having the marks at other-than-bottom were USO refurbished scopes (#1066, #1091, #1095, #1548, #1550, #1741, #1868, #1881, #5128, and one unknown serial)
    All of the non-USO refurbished scopes have the marks at or near the very bottom.

    The preponderance of the evidence (70 of 80) (or, 70 of 70 non-USO refurbished scopes) seems to suggest that Unertl intentionally positioned the mark at or near the bottoms of the scopes during original manufacture. Given that Unertl elevation assemblies show evidence of carefully being machined as sets, I wouldn't be surprised if they also carefully clocked the threads of the objective bell to position the mark at the bottom.
    It also suggests that the objective bell on some may have been removed and/or replaced during USO refurbishment....
    Last edited by SemperFi; 11-14-2018, 02:04 PM. Reason: Updated data to CMP1741-b/1868 and EB1410, 1548
    You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

  • #2
    I guess they put it at the bottom so it wont show.

    Good info!

    Comment


    • #3
      Excellent scholarly investigation.

      This is the kind of stuff that a "student" of the rifle would find interesting.

      What the hell is wrong with us?
      "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

      Comment


      • pmclaine
        pmclaine commented
        Editing a comment
        Semper Fi asked - I missed this before. What scope are you talking about?

        I was talking about the one on the T shirt.

        Go look and be sure to get back to me when you see it.

      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        I checked my two shirts, and I'm not seeing anything. Not really seeing anything definitive on the auction T-shirt either. Even so, we don't really know anything about the rifle on the T-shirt, so I'm not sure it would be safe to base anything off of it.

      • pmclaine
        pmclaine commented
        Editing a comment
        Really look closer check again.

    • #4
      Worth a thousand words. Two of my three Unertl scopes are like this. One is an issued and one is a T-series. The other T-series has it on the bottom. These had to be stamped in the bell housing then screwed in place. They may have WANTED all of them at 6 o'clock as some have speculated but they are all not at 6 o'clock. Hope this helps.

      Click image for larger version

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      Comment


      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        The T-series doesn't count. Those were assembled from parts after Unertl died, not manufactured as a unit like the originals appear to have been. This is good evidence, though, that the objective bell was stamped before assembly, rather than after.
        Last edited by SemperFi; 01-22-2016, 02:42 PM.

    • #5
      Ok, if you insist. I guess my issued scope descent count. It was in made the first batch that was delivered to the Marine Corps.
      Last edited by Game Warden; 01-22-2016, 02:32 PM.

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by Game Warden View Post
        Ok, if you insist. I guess my issued scope descent count. It was in made the first batch that was delivered to the Marine Corps.
        Was your issued scope refurbished by USO?
        You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

        Comment


        • SemperFi
          SemperFi commented
          Editing a comment
          BTW, I consider this just a curiosity. I couldn't care less if the theory doesn't hold water in the end. It's not like we're going to start making Unertl clones and we care what's ''correct'' or ''incorrect''. What it is, it is. Certainly nothing to argue about or get worked up over. It's just fun to try to figure this stuff out if it looks like there might be some pattern to it. No worries..

        • pmclaine
          pmclaine commented
          Editing a comment
          Based on the small sample group it all seems plausible.

          Theory

          1. Contract Unertls were built with a level of manufacture that made a good effort to have the key be at 6 oclock on the bell

          2. USO didnt seem to feel that the location mattered and really for the minor asthetic value added it doesnt.

          3. T scopes can be random because they were built of leftover parts and again were of a different standard than the contract scopes.

          4. USO refurbed scopes can be random because during teh rebuild process USO may have replaced a bell losing the thread timing or parts may have been swapped between scopes again throwing off the timing.

          It all sounds good and supported by SF's invest. I think the number of original scopes showing the mark on the bottom would show that Unertl made an effort to place the mark at the 6.

          More data will confirm or disprove.

        • SemperFi
          SemperFi commented
          Editing a comment
          OP data updated to the current CMP auction #1741-b/1868. USO refurb, with mark not at bottom.

          Not such a small sample any more! Up to 80 now....
          Last edited by SemperFi; 11-14-2018, 02:04 PM. Reason: Updated data to CMP1741-b/1868 and EB1410, 1548

      • #7
        So, now there's discussion about that little "dent" in the objective bell of the Unertl USMC SNIPERs. The "dent" being a stamp that is designed to engage a keyway in the objective cell to prevent rotation. It is usually found at the bottom of the bell, but sometimes in other places. Here is data I collected via CMP auction photos (from the ones that weren't so heavily painted as to obscure the mark), plus my own Unertl:

        Total of 81 samples (45 stock Unertls, and 36 USO-refurbished Unertls)
        11 of 81 have the mark in positions other than near the bottom
        15 of 81 have the mark near the bottom, but off to one side too far to call "bottom"
        55 of 81 have the mark at the very bottom, or close enough to the very bottom to include

        Interestingly, the eleven scopes having the marks at other-than-bottom were USO refurbished scopes (#1066, #1091, #1095, #1548, #1550, #1741, #1868, #1881, #5128, #5145, and one unknown serial)
        All of the non-USO refurbished scopes have the marks at or near the very bottom.

        The preponderance of the evidence (70 of 81) (or, 45 of 45 non-USO refurbished scopes) seems to suggest that Unertl intentionally positioned the mark at or near the bottoms of the scopes during original manufacture. Given that Unertl elevation assemblies show evidence of carefully being machined as sets, I wouldn't be surprised if they also carefully clocked the threads of the objective bell to position the mark at the bottom.
        It also suggests that the objective bell on some may have been removed and/or replaced during USO refurbishment....


        Updated data to CMP5145 and EB1410, 1548
        You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

        Comment


        • Defender3
          Defender3 commented
          Editing a comment
          FWIW, I've been reading posts on the forum since joining and one of them took me to USO's site where that little dent stamp was mentioned as the number one question they receive about these optics. Provided as just a little aside early on a Sunday morning.

        • SemperFi
          SemperFi commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, some people think it's a defect of some kind.

      • #8
        So, now there's discussion about that little "dent" in the objective bell of the Unertl USMC SNIPERs. The "dent" being a stamp that is designed to engage a keyway in the objective cell to prevent rotation. It is usually found at the bottom of the bell, but sometimes in other places. Here is data I collected via CMP auction photos (from the ones that weren't so heavily painted as to obscure the mark), plus my own Unertl:

        Total of 82 samples (46 stock Unertls, and 36 USO-refurbished Unertls)
        11 of 82 have the mark in positions other than near the bottom
        15 of 82 have the mark near the bottom, but off to one side too far to call "bottom"
        56 of 82 have the mark at the very bottom, or close enough to the very bottom to include

        Interestingly, the eleven scopes having the marks at other-than-bottom were USO refurbished scopes (#1066, #1091, #1095, #1548, #1550, #1741, #1868, #1881, #5128, #5145, and one unknown serial)
        All of the non-USO refurbished scopes have the marks at or near the very bottom.

        The preponderance of the evidence (71 of 82) (or, 46 of 46 non-USO refurbished scopes) seems to suggest that Unertl intentionally positioned the mark at or near the bottoms of the scopes during original manufacture. Given that Unertl elevation assemblies show evidence of carefully being machined as sets, I wouldn't be surprised if they also carefully clocked the threads of the objective bell to position the mark at the bottom.
        It also suggests that the objective bell on some may have been removed and/or replaced during USO refurbishment....


        Updated data to CMP1687 and EB1410, 1548
        You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

        Comment


        • #9
          So, now there's discussion about that little "dent" in the objective bell of the Unertl USMC SNIPERs. The "dent" being a stamp that is designed to engage a keyway in the objective cell to prevent rotation. It is usually found at the bottom of the bell, but sometimes in other places. Here is data I collected via CMP auction photos (from the ones that weren't so heavily painted as to obscure the mark), plus my own Unertl:

          Total of 84 samples (47 stock Unertls, and 37 USO-refurbished Unertls)
          11 of 84 have the mark in positions other than near the bottom
          15 of 84 have the mark near the bottom, but off to one side too far to call "bottom"
          58 of 84 have the mark at the very bottom, or close enough to the very bottom to include

          Interestingly, the eleven scopes having the marks at other-than-bottom were USO refurbished scopes (#1066, #1091, #1095, #1548, #1550, #1741, #1868, #1881, #5128, #5145, and one unknown serial)
          All of the non-USO refurbished scopes have the marks at or near the very bottom.

          The preponderance of the evidence (73 of 84) (or, 47 of 47 non-USO refurbished scopes) seems to suggest that Unertl intentionally positioned the mark at or near the bottoms of the scopes during original manufacture. Given that Unertl elevation assemblies show evidence of carefully being machined as sets, I wouldn't be surprised if they also carefully clocked the threads of the objective bell to position the mark at the bottom.
          It also suggests that the objective bell on some may have been removed and/or replaced during USO refurbishment....


          Updated data to CMP1844 and EB1410, 1548
          You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

          Comment


          • #10
            So, now there's discussion about that little "dent" in the objective bell of the Unertl USMC SNIPERs. The "dent" being a stamp that is designed to engage a keyway in the objective cell to prevent rotation. It is usually found at the bottom of the bell, but sometimes in other places. Here is data I collected via CMP auction photos (from the ones that weren't so heavily painted as to obscure the mark), plus my own Unertl:

            Total of 85 samples (48 stock Unertls, and 37 USO-refurbished Unertls)
            11 of 85 have the mark in positions other than near the bottom
            15 of 85 have the mark near the bottom, but off to one side too far to call "bottom"
            59 of 85 have the mark at the very bottom, or close enough to the very bottom to include

            Interestingly, the eleven scopes having the marks at other-than-bottom were USO refurbished scopes (#1066, #1091, #1095, #1548, #1550, #1741, #1868, #1881, #5128, #5145, and one unknown serial)
            All of the non-USO refurbished scopes have the marks at or near the very bottom.

            The preponderance of the evidence (74 of 85) (or, 48 of 48 non-USO refurbished scopes) seems to suggest that Unertl intentionally positioned the mark at or near the bottoms of the scopes during original manufacture. Given that Unertl elevation assemblies show evidence of carefully being machined as sets, I wouldn't be surprised if they also carefully clocked the threads of the objective bell to position the mark at the bottom.
            It also suggests that the objective bell on some may have been removed and/or replaced during USO refurbishment....


            Updated data to CMP1860 and EB1410, 1548
            You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

            Comment


            • #11
              This old shooter recently purchased a Unertl that was marked for use with the .50 cal. I've wanted a Unertl for many, many years and only recently found one in my price range with a huge amount of luck. I plan to mount it on the Barrett .50. I would like to ask some of you who have a better grasp of this fine scope for some advise on mounting properly,shooting with it and also ask if any of you have or could possibly send me a copy of the Operators Manual. Any assistance would be highly appreciated.

              Comment


              • PB"
                PB" commented
                Editing a comment
                BTW: Its serial 1765; It has no USO modification. pb

              • SemperFi
                SemperFi commented
                Editing a comment
                Welcome, PB". I don't mean to run you off this thread, but your post really deserves a thread of its own, and would receive more exposure and responses when you do. I suggest starting a specific thread under the "Riflescopes" forum. Without the ability for me to edit my original post, this thread could become very long on its own without posts taking it off-topic.
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