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MST100 Parallax - Beyond 300Y

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  • MST100 Parallax - Beyond 300Y

    It's been recommended to set the fixed parallax on the MST-100/Unertl 10x at 300 yards. I'm am totally unfamiliar with this optic, and for that matter, any dynamic of parallax beyond the basics, so, my questions is if anyone has set theirs at a longer range?

    I will be shooting this rifle at 300/600 and 800/1000 and was wondering if I set it at 600 if that would introduce an issue? My thought being it may help back at 1000, and knowing that I need to keep a consistent check weld and eye box. TIA.

    ETA - If anyone has a better manual than the 3-page USO one, please let me know as I'd like a copy.
    Last edited by Defender3; 11-16-2018, 06:28 PM.

  • #2
    Parallax changes less the further an object is from the viewer. A 300 yard parallax is barely workable at 100 yards (blurry target and quite a bit of parallax), fairly workable at 200 yards, and fine from 300-1000 yards (conventional sniping distances). Though some parallax will be noticeable near 900-1000 yards, it is relatively negligible.

    Some set parallax at 500 and deal with some parallax at 300 yards, but less out to 1000 yards. If I was planning to start my shooting distance at 300 yards and shoot out to 1000 yards with some regularity, I might set the parallax at 400 yards. Setting at 500 yards might start to cause trouble at 300, and I certainly would not set it at 600 yards. If set at 600 yards, I would expect a good amount of parallax at 300 yards.
    You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

    Comment


    • Defender3
      Defender3 commented
      Editing a comment
      Appreciate the answer - thanks.

    • Skunk
      Skunk commented
      Editing a comment
      SemperFi is spot on. And, if there is any mirage at all when you go to set your parallax, you likely would have a hard time setting it at any distance further than 300yds anyway.

    • Defender3
      Defender3 commented
      Editing a comment
      I'll just stick with the book and set at 300.

  • #3
    Refer here.

    https://www.m40rifle.com/forum/optic...r-new-mst-100s

    Comment


    • #4
      I set mine at 300.

      For the shooting I typically do Id probably be better bringing it in to 200.

      300 hasnt hurt me at 100.

      These were shot at 100

      Click image for larger version  Name:	PC037200_zpsyn7tssk2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	127.6 KB ID:	39779

      While swinging (vid from another day)

      https://youtu.be/PH-wOlRCkhs

      Scope/rifle combo works....

      Click image for larger version  Name:	PB207182_zpsgzqjunxr.jpg Views:	1 Size:	163.4 KB ID:	39780

      First set your clearest ocular setting for a super sharp reticle.

      Go to 300 and dick with the objective parallax cell to get your clearest parallax free target view.

      Where things get screwy is when you go to lock the lenses down and things move while tightening up. Just do your best than set it and forget it.

      I wish I could have a lot of those rounds back I wasted dicking with the scope.
      "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

      Comment


      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for posting this SemperFi. I read your original instructions, but see you added setting the crosshairs.

        I just finished raking more leaves and am bored, so I'm taking your original instructions (nice of you to take the time to create and post that BTW) and putting some pictures to them, and making a little pamphlet. If you don't mind, I'll run it by you when done.

      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        No problem. I hope it helps. I think you'll love the scope once it's set up.

      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        The nice thing is I live about 3 miles from the rear gate of the ranges. It's an easy ride to R4 and most weekends the wife wants to clean up without me bothering her, so off I go. I'll head out this morning with my cheap 1.5x shooting glasses and see if it makes a difference. I'll also bring a box of old Hansen ammo I've had laying around since the mid 80's and do the shoot a round, clean, shoot another round and clean, etc., to break-in the barrel. That way, when I get to 300 in a couple of weeks (no ranges next weekend) at least I'll be able to lock the rifle in and sight it at 300.

    • #5
      1. Clear reticle is key.

      2 . Remove parallax as much as possible is key.

      If you meet requirements of 1 and 2 but target is not 100 percent try shooting and if it works leave well enough alone.

      Do you wear glasses? Are you setting up with/without your perscription?

      I usually shoot without glasses letting my diopter settings take care of my eyesight shortcomings.

      I just bought a TA33 Acog and just realized the fixed focus will require I wear my glasses to see the reticle .
      "...But they would never find anything to beat the old Springfield ...the long sleek streamline, very slim but with potent bulges, all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look that marked the Springfield. Beside it, the M1 looked like a fat old man puffing with a lack of training...the two most beautiful things made in America were the ax-handle and the clipper ship? ...they should have added one more thing: The Springfield '03 rifle..."

      Comment


      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        If you normally use eye correction (or should be), not wearing correction would explain why the image is not as focused to your eye as it could be when parallax-free. It's not the scope.

      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I was thinking akin to a modern optic where I could easily set the diopter to my eye.

        In case anyone is interested, I can still see and shoot with cheaters so I use a magnified set of safety glasses. You can pick them up on Amazon for under $10. I've tried some of the other brands, but founds these work for me:

        https://www.amazon.com/Elvex-RX-500C...G96YDVFBBYMTXA

      • SemperFi
        SemperFi commented
        Editing a comment
        A pair of those could come in handy for us oldsters focusing on pistol front sights. But, I don't think it is what you want in this case. You need to wear whatever you use for distance, and make sure the Rx is up to date. Your eye needs to focus on the 300 yard target through the scope just the same as it would without the scope.

    • #6
      Alright, I'm afraid I had no better results today. I had an uninterrupted 2hrs behind the rifle. It was bagged in at 1000 using a Champion Gorilla bag. I rechecked the eyepiece focus by sighting against the distant blue sky with my naked eye. I checked several times by looking at the sky, and then the reticle, as well as closing my eyes and then looking through the scope. I sighted at a telephone pole 300yds down the line (at 700yds) and the reticle was sharp on the target, but the target out of focus and parallax present (same as yesterday).

      The objective focusing ring was turned all the way in on the threads (counter-clockwise) so I loosened the objective lock ring 1/4 turn and rotated the objective focusing ring slightly, there was no change in the clarity of the target or parallax. I loosened the lock ring three turns and adjusted the focusing ring 1/4 turn, each time rechecking parallax and clarity, there was no change throughout the range of the three turns.I added another 3 turns and repeated with the same results; clarity was no sharper or fuzzier.

      I repeated this with my cheater 1.5x with no change. I repeated with my non-magnified shooting glasses, no change. I repeated each of the three while sighting at 1,000, no change in parallax or clarity.

      One thing I did notice was I could gain target clarity by taking my eye and looking straight downwards. While doing so, I would move the scope so I could see the bottom portion of the reticle, while doing so, I had increased target clarity, but clearly there's no way to shoot in this manner.

      Unless someone has some suggestions, I can only surmise there may be some other issue, so I'll be calling USO on Monday.



      Comment


      • Skunk
        Skunk commented
        Editing a comment
        If you don't re-tighten the objective lock ring each time to move the objective adjustment, you're not actually moving the lens cell forward and thus are not changing the parallax setting.

        Start in the other direction. Loosen the lock ring and then turn the adjustment ring CCW (if looking from muzzle end of scope/rifle) several complete revolutions, at least. Tighten the lock ring by hand to pull the lens cell forward. Do this until you have moved the adjustment ring forward until you run out of thread.

        Then, find your 300yd target and turn the adjustment ring in/CW until you have clear, parallax free image. Tighten lock ring.

      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, will do!

    • #7
      From your post, you are using a + diopter (reading glasses) when looking thru the scope. While they may work with a service rifle or pistol, I think that it is counter productive when using a scope.
      30 years ago I used a - diopter (-.25 to -.50) for my Service rifle. It gave me the best sight picture for years. Fast forward to age fifty, I have to use + diopter for irons and reading. One day I was shooting my M-40 and had my old lens (-.50) in my glasses and noticed that the 50 year old scope I was looking thru had a much better view of the target.

      FWIW,
      Steve

      Comment


      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Let us mere mortals in on the details, please.

      • steveu
        steveu commented
        Editing a comment
        They are fixed frame shooting glasses. They make them for 3 position rifle (ie: service rifle) or bullseye pistol. they are not cheap, but they will last a lifetime. I have a pair of both types. The rifle ones are about 30 years old. Use your google fu and you will find a picture of them.

      • Defender3
        Defender3 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks. I've always been looking for a flat faced set of shooting glasses as even a slight curve introduces a variance.

    • #8
      Okay, I went back out to R4 and and spent another 90 minutes behind the rifle - no luv. I did the following with the naked eye, no shooting glasses or magnification.

      The front objective focusing ring and the objective lock ring were fully seated "in" (CCW when behind the rifle) when I received the rifle, so I started there for this session. I turned the objective lock ring about 6 turns CW which is probably close to the end of the threads. I turned the objective focusing ring out to meet the lock ring and locked them in place. I got behind the rifle and focused on a set of telephone poles 300 yards away, no clarity and parallax. I then turned the objective focusing ring 1/4 turn CCW, locked the objective lock ring to the focusing ring and got behind the rifle to find parallax and a lack of clarity. I repeated that about 32 times, 1/4 turn at a time and each time relocking the lock and focusing rings. While there was some improvement in clarity, the targets remained blurry, not fuzzy, blurry. Each time I also checked the ground around the targets for clarity and they too remained blurry. I checked for parallax each time and it too was present.

      I repeated the process from "inside to outside" (as I did yesterday), each time locking the lock ring to the focusing ring, same results.

      I repeated the first process (outside to inside), again going 1/4 turn at a time. There were sometimes when I was gaining clarity, so I reduced the ring movements to about a 16th and went in and out several time trying to get a sharp sight picture, never got any clearer.

      I then sighted at the impact area placards, which are 7'x7' and at 1035yds and repeated the first process. I did not expect to resolve the issue, but I was trying to get some data. I was focusing at target placard 7. In my field of view I could see placard 1 to the left and 11 to my right. While going through the process, there was a time where 7 was out of focus, but 1 was in focus and 11 was almost focused. I think if I could see 12, it would have been focused. I played with the adjustments but never got clarity in the center of the objective.

      Anyways, all I can surmise is there must be some issue beyond my control. If anyone can suggest anything else, please do.

      Here's a picture of the telephone poles 300yds away. The closest one on the left is 300 yards.

      .

      I tried to get some pictures of the reticle versus the target, but they didn't turn out too well. The first one was with the reticle clear and sharp and on the target, which was blurry. I took the picture and of course, both the reticle and target appear blurry. You people who wear glasses may have a clear reticle when looking at the screen. Hopefully you can get a feel for the differences in focus, but this was consistent throughout the processes I described. The second shot is basically the same, just taken with the iPotato a bit further from back from the reticle. However, even though the reticle is out of focus, it better shows the level of blurriness of the target area during the testing.





      I do appreciate all the help trying to help me work through this, but I'm out of altitude and airspeed.

      Last edited by Defender3; 11-18-2018, 04:51 PM.

      Comment


      • #9
        It sounds like you're going through the process correctly, but I suspect you still have not taken the objective lens cell far enough out/forward. You should be able to obtain clear and parallax free image down to 50yd or less. Starting there, you shouldn't have to push the lenses in/rearward very far to get your 300yd setting. I think you're still "focused" beyond where a scope would normally be set at infinity.

        I admit I don't wear glasses, so I could be completely out of touch with what you're experiencing.

        Comment


        • #10
          Originally posted by Skunk View Post
          It sounds like you're going through the process correctly, but I suspect you still have not taken the objective lens cell far enough out/forward. You should be able to obtain clear and parallax free image down to 50yd or less. Starting there, you shouldn't have to push the lenses in/rearward very far to get your 300yd setting. I think you're still "focused" beyond where a scope would normally be set at infinity.

          I admit I don't wear glasses, so I could be completely out of touch with what you're experiencing.
          I'm at a loss as the clarity/focus only changed nominally throughout the 6 revolutions I used. I did not go any further as the lock ring was just about to come off as it was loose and wobbly in the threads. I can keep turning and take the lock and focusing rings out/off, but I'm not sure what issue that may introduce. I'm going to set the rifle up in a tipton rest tomorrow and crank on the rings to see what is and isn't moving on that front end.

          As for glasses, SemperFi was correct, the magnified glasses allow you to focus on, for instance, the front sight of a pistol, but I don't need glasses for distance so I can do all this with my naked eye.

          Comment


          • #11
            The larger ring, what I call the adjustment ring, is just a stop which the lock ring (smaller one with notches) pulls the objective lens cell against. You can take both rings off without harm.

            You can move the adjustment ring forward and away from the lens cell. Without retightening the lock ring, you're not pulling the lens forward. That's why I recommend starting with the adjustment ring far forward. That way, when you move it rearward it pushes the lens and you don't have to mess with the lock ring so much.

            Lens forward equals near distance parallax setting.

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by Skunk View Post
              The larger ring, what I call the adjustment ring, is just a stop which the lock ring (smaller one with notches) pulls the objective lens cell against. You can take both rings off without harm.

              You can move the adjustment ring forward and away from the lens cell. Without retightening the lock ring, you're not pulling the lens forward. That's why I recommend starting with the adjustment ring far forward. That way, when you move it rearward it pushes the lens and you don't have to mess with the lock ring so much.

              Lens forward equals near distance parallax setting.
              Well, I think I did that, but I'll lock it in the Tipton tomorrow and look at it from the front to see if everything is moving. Worse comes to worse, I'll clamp on the T-10!

              Comment


              • #13
                Pay attention to the head/object/crosshair movement directions I outlined, and you'll know which way you have to go. I contributed that to eliminate the guesswork and speed up the process.

                I don't know if this will help as a rough guide or not, because it boils down to the glass used and the internal assembly distances, but my USO MST-100 is 11 7/8" overall length with the parallax set to 300 yards. Likewise, my Unertl MST-100 is 11 15/16" long.
                Last edited by SemperFi; 11-18-2018, 09:46 PM.
                You can take a Marine out of the Corps, but you can't take the Corps out of a Marine.

                Comment


                • #14
                  DId you ever get this sorted out Defender3 ? I am a new owner of an MST-100 and am having a similar issue. I have adjusted the focus and the reticle is crystal clear, however parallax is an issue. From the adjustment ring being completely tight, all the way till the adjustment ring comes out, my target stays blurred.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Originally posted by CAAussie View Post
                    DId you ever get this sorted out Defender3 ? I am a new owner of an MST-100 and am having a similar issue. I have adjusted the focus and the reticle is crystal clear, however parallax is an issue. From the adjustment ring being completely tight, all the way till the adjustment ring comes out, my target stays blurred.
                    Actually no, but it's more because I haven't been able to get back to 300y to set the parallax. While you unscrew the lens, make sure you also pull the objective out as Skunk mentioned.

                    I'll be honest, I luv this rifle but the scope system is atrocious (my opinion). I've broken in the barrel using the 1, 3, 3, 3, 5, 5, and 10 method and I bet it's a tack driver, but I'm going to sell this rifle off as with a 300y setting, you'll always have parallax issues a longer distances. I'm old and crotchety now so I don't handle frustration well. I'll focus on the 1941 USMC Sniper instead. Good luck!

                    Comment

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